In a forceful, outspoken and, at times, defiant interview, Justice A.P. Shah, the former Chief Justice of the Madras and Delhi high courts, has expressed deep concern at multiple levels about the present state of India. Rarely, if ever, has such an eminent judge spoken with such searing criticism.
In a 43-minute interview to Karan Thapar for The Wire, Justice Shah, who is also a former chairman of the Law Commission, first spoke about the way in which the Delhi police and Municipal Corporation of Delhi (MCD) defied the Supreme Court’s order on Wednesday to stay demolitions in Jahangirpuri.
He said: “This was gross defiance of court orders … if the Supreme Court wants to do justice [to the ordinary citizens affected], then it must take appropriate action and send the guilty officers to jail.” Justice Shah said fines should also be imposed. More importantly, he said the Supreme Court must “restore status quo ante” and “fix compensation for this”.
Referring to the communal clash from Madhya Pradesh’s Khargone, where the houses of people who were labelled as “stone-throwers” or “rioters” were demolished, Justice Shah said not only must they be given “complete reparation” but also “an apology at the highest level”.
When it was put to him that if apologies are required for the miscarriage of justice in Delhi, then the highest level would have to be the home minister of the country – because the police come under him – Justice Shah did not demur.
Justice Shah told The Wire, “I see a clear campaign against Muslims.”
Justice Shah spoke at length about the demolitions in Jahangirpuri, earlier this week, and Khargone, after Ram Navami.
He said, “The whole object is to create more polarisation and more tension.”
Speaking about how homes have been demolished as punishment for allegedly stone-throwing or participating in riots, Justice Shah said, “There is no system to impose punishment for collective guilt.”
He pointed out that, first, the people whose homes have been demolished are only ‘accused’ of being stone-throwers or rioters, and their guilt has not been established.
Second, he added, when one demolishes a home, it ends up punishing all the people who live there and they may not even be remotely connected to the riot.
Justice Shah also pointed out that even if the demolished buildings are considered encroachments, notices have to be given and also time to appeal. “Without this, it is again a miscarriage of justice.”
Speaking about hate speech, Justice Shah said it is “the root cause of violence”. He added “it is a serious challenge to the rule of law”. He said no longer is this limited to “fringe elements … it has become mainstream”.
Questioned about Justice Chandra Dhari Singh of the Delhi high court’s comment that if you say something with a smile it’s okay, Justice Shah, a former Chief Justice of the same court, said, “I was astonished.”
Speaking of the police, Justice Shah said they are “completely compromised and completely biased”. Justice Shah said if the police won’t act after Yati Narsinghanand has breached the conditions of his bail by indulging in hate speech, it’s incumbent on the courts to step in.
Asked how he views the Prime Minister, the home minister and the entire government’s silence in the face of increasing hate speech and communal violence, Justice Shah said: “The most worrying part is that those highest in power are silent.”
However, Justice Shah’s comments and criticisms about the present situation in India go well beyond the Jahangirpuri and Khargone incidents. Justice Shah said: “I see a clear emergence of electoral autocracy.” He said, without taking names, “leaders use democratic institutions to kill democracy”.
He said, “The Election Commission, the Human Rights Commission and the media have been compromised.” Justice Shah also said “the constitution is systematically weakened”.
He mentioned bills which are not money bills have been treated as money bills. He also mentioned the failure to recognise any opposition leader as the official leader of the opposition.
In the interview, Justice Shah frequently used developments from the 1930s in Nazi Germany as comparison points. He also used the Nazi German minister for Propaganda Goebbels as an illustration.
As mentioned above, this is not a precis. It only highlights some of the important points. The truth is that almost every answer from Justice Shah contains strong newsworthy points. This is why this interview has to be seen and cannot be paraphrased or precised.
